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============================================================================ (C) 1987 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt. Type XJM11877,GEnie and hit RETURN. The system will prompt you for your information. ============================================================================ Room 1, the General Club room. Job City Room Sta Mail-Address 1 Spartanburg,SC 1 N C.DARBY1 2 Brooklyn,NY 1 N DERRICK 3 San diego,CA 1 N MIKE.ACKLIN 4 Metairie,LA 1 N M.AUCOIN 5 San diego,CA 1 L DARLAH 6 Hollywood,CA 1 N M.PETERSEN 7 Arlington hgh,IL 1 N JEFFWILLIAMS 8 Middlesex,NJ 1 N ST-REPORT 9 Hadley,MA 1 N [Dan] GRIBNIF 10 Littleton,CO 1 N [Mark] MB 11 Jackson heigh,NY 1 N [Mel] NIGHTDIVER 12 Morris plains,NJ 1 N D.BURRIS 13 Columbus,OH 1 N [APOSTLE] APOSTLE 14 Whitestone,NY 1 N [Bob Rx] R.ROBERTSON 15 Ridgefield,NJ 1 N B.MITTELMAN 16 Travis afb,CA 1 N [Doug] D.N.WHEELER 17 Rockville,MD 1 N [John] JKUEHN 18 Westerville,OH 1 N [Tom Miller] T.MILLER7 19 Salt lake cit,UT 1 N SANDY.W 20 Dublin,OH 1 N [WER@Home] W.E.RASCHE 21 Woodside,NY 1 N [bill] ABGRAF 22 Eafb,AK 1 N [Rich] NOEGFA 23 Orlando,FL 1 N W.BUCKHOLDT 24 Cherry hill,NJ 1 N ST.DICKSON 25 Colorado spri,CO 1 N [brad] B.MORAVEK 26 Kenmore,NY 1 N [Gerry] G.GENSON 27 Jacksonville,FL 1 N [Bob] R.ROSENDALE1 28 Windsor,VT 1 N C.DAVIS 29 Englewood,CO 1 N DAVESMALL 30 Mississauga,ON 1 N [Darek] DAREKM 31 Salt lake cit,UT 1 N MAJOR-HAVOC <DARLAH> Darek welcome to the co. Can you tell us about your product. <[Darek] DAREKM> Hello everyone. Hi Darlah. Glad you can have me here tonight.I'm here for several reasons tonight: to plug my latest emulator, ST Xformer II, which was released here on GEnie 4 weeks ago, to answer any questions you may have about it (either from using it, or because you haven't seen it yet), and to announce an update that will be released here on GEnie in a couple of days. <[Darek] DAREKM Judging from the 600+ downloads of Xformer in just its first two weeks within its release, it looks like there are a lot of former 8 bit users out there. So you'll be happy to learn that the update, ST Xformer 2.1, now supports: - the "RAM under ROM" 800XL memory emulation, which allows 800XL specific programs like Turbo Basic to run, - both single and double density 8 bit disks and allows one to read 5 1/4" double density disks directly, - better player missle graphics, - a limited Apple emulator, - and it fixes some brutal crashing bugs, like the "3 bombs in color", "black stripes in mono", and "crashes to the menu bar" bugs. I was playing with 2.1 for a few hours last night and didn't get it to crash even once. In addition to the updated emulator, a file transfer program, "ST Xformer File Xfer Program" will be provided to help out with those dreaded .SD files. It is now possible to move 8 bit files back and forth between GEMDOS and the .SD files. <[Darek] DAREKM That's about all for the intro, so let the CO begin. ga <DARLAH> please raise hands to ask questions by typing /rai and end your questions when finished with GA <C.DARBY1> Any luck on gettin access to the C64 roms GA <[Darek] DAREKM> nope, Commodore won't talk to me. DId get in touch with the... Laser 128 people people, Video Tech or something, and they... told me to call Hong Kong (their head office), and the number... I got for Franklin computers is no longerin use. So no luck... so far. However, as an experiment, version 2.1 will allow a a user to user their own Apple ROMs (how you obtain them is... _your_ business). I just want to see how many poeple can actually figure it out (how to port them). ga <C.DARBY1> Ok thanks and keep up the good work. ga <[Darek] DAREKM> next Q? <[Bob Rx] R.ROBERTSON> Hi Darek, Will the 2.1 version work on 520St's. ga <[Darek] DAREKM> no. the original Xformer II and version 2.1 require a full Meg, although 2.1 is slightly more memory efficient. There is a stripped down version that I put together about 3 weeks ago, called ST Xformer Jr, which runs on any 520ST in color. It... gives you a 48K Atari 800, with a single density drive, and no more, because the 520 can hold no more. This file is already up here on GEnie as STXFJR.ARC I believe. GA <[Bob Rx] R.ROBERTSON> Thanks Darek for the answer and the Xformer I program.GA <[brad] B.MORAVEK> I use an old apple II, will the basic/pascal programs work?GA <[Darek] DAREKM> Brad, what you have to do is copy over the 12K of ROM in he Apple, (memory loation $C000 to $FFFF). You save that as a file which you then port to the ST and call APPLE.STX. Run th emulator, click on the appropriate menu option, and you will bootup in Applesoft Basic. Same works for Integer Basic, but I don't know about Pascal on the Apple. Never used it. GA <[brad] B.MORAVEK> Thank you....GA <DAVESMALL> Hi Darek -- How's it coming with reading double density 8-bitdisks? ga. <[Darek] DAREKM> Well, like I told you a few weeks ago by phone, I had som luck with reading Indus GT and 1050 Doubler disks. No luck still with my Rana disks. The File Xfer Program will contain a routine to sector read an entire double density disk directly off a 5 1/4" drive, like an IB drive, and save it out as a .DD file for use with the emulator. GA <DAVESMALL> Great! What do you use for development these days? Sll Megamax? .ga. <[Darek] DAREKM> Yep, that buggy version 1.01 of Laser C. By the way, they didn't seem to interested in placing a Laser promo in the emulator, so I put one in for them. I've just about had it with Laser C's bugs. But there are some new and interesting ads that other companies did submit. GA <DAVESMALL> thank you.. ga. <MIKE.ACKLIN> Hi Darek, Just wanted to say thanks for the fas response and I got 2.02 yesterday. Star Trek 3 worked great GA <[Darek] DAREKM> Great! You tried it under Turbo Basic? (I do hope that Star Trek 3 _is_ a P/D game. GOt sent to me on a P/D disk). You should get version 2.1 when it comes out, since the 2.02 you receive is missing some features. Thanks for your registration. GA <M.AUCOIN> Can XformerII run the classics (Pac Man ect.) ga <[Darek] DAREKM> well, this is where things get a bit troublesome. Yes, it can run some classics, my favorite being Lode Runner. However, most of these "classics cartriddge games, which for you to run them imply that you must crack them first. To try to reduce th amount of piracy that might go on as people move 8 bit stuff to the ST, I've contacted a few 8 bit software companies about having them release some of their 8 bit stuff into the ST public domain. For example, other great programs that run are Sargon II chess and B/Graph. So far, I've got a few "we'll think about it" responses, and I'm still waiting to hear from EA about B/Graph. But, on more legal programs, Xformer II will run most of your Antic and Analog programs that find their way to BBSs, and some of those programs are as good as cracked stuff, so please stick to them. You may try the 8 bit library here on GEnie for a source of several thousand 8 bit files. GA <M.AUCOIN> Thanks Darek I have a lot of purchased ga <[Darek] DAREKM> well, if they are not copy protected, you can use Diskcomm to transfer them to the ST. For example, Paperclip. GA <[bill] ABGRAF> I had a apple clone made by ZUES maybe they are still around? <[Darek] DAREKM> maybe, but I'd need an address or telephone number of whoever own their ROMs, (_if_ ZEUS's ROMs are legal to begin with). GA <[bill] ABGRAF> also when is that transfer prog to an IB drive available <[bill] ABGRAF> ZEUS was part of a photo processer <[Darek] DAREKM> the Xfer program will be released with version 2.1, hopefully by July 29 (Friday). The emulator upgrade itself is finished, but the Xfer program is being written by another programmer who didn't quite make the deadline I set for him for tonight. But I've got an almost functioning version of the Xfer program and should be able to get it running myself by Friday. GA <[bill] ABGRAF> thank you! ga <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> Hi' As I told you on the phone, I have (Had) a bunch of 8-bit files on disk. I put these into .SD files an they didn't work. Out of more than 50 <[Darek] DAREKM> That was a bug with 2.0 not merging the files sometimes. Fixed in the Xfer program. GA <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> only about 3 or 4 of them actually worked. (Emulated???). Also the Xformer II jr. needs some way to exchange disk within the program. GA <[Darek] DAREKM> Yes, that's one flaw of Xformer Jr, but like I said, the 20 doesn't leave me with any memory to do more. So Jr. is more of a teaser than a useful emulator. You need 1Meg to do serious work on it, since on 2.1, you can insert and eject both the double and single density "disk" at any time without then forcing a reboot of the Atari 800, like Jr and 2.00 require you to do. This way, 8 bit programs that take up several disks can be run on the emulator. GA <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> I see. As you also know, I have the APPLE ROMS. Think I should u/l them? Naw. <DARLAH> naw <[Darek] DAREKM> naw <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> So then the 2.1 will allow the programs to work on the jr, if that makes any sense. Not sure it does. ga <[Darek] DAREKM> yep, with the Xfer program. GA (please type your questions in ahead of time) <ST-REPORT> DAREK, ARE YOU FAMILAR WITH JONES' EMULATOR? ARE THE TWO OF YOU COOPERATING? HOW DIFFERENT AARE YOUR APPROACHES <[Darek] DAREKM> No, we're not co-operating, but we have spoken by voice a few times to exchange ideas. Since he's working on his emulator as a commercia project, I can understand that he wouldn't want to talk about it _too much. From what he told me, the main difference is that I load the Atari 800 or 800XL ROMs from disk (actually, they're merged into the emulator), whereas he's going about it the Magic Sac way, which then allows you to plug in Apple and C64 ROMs legally. In terms of sped, he claims 60%, whereas I'm running 40%, but haven't seen his, so I'll belive it when I see it. As you know, the next step for me will be to turn Xformer from a 650 interpreter, which is slow, into a 6502 compiler, which will convert 6502 code into 68000 that runs faster than a eal Atari 800. Probably a 6 month or 1 year project, but it is doable, as sme benchmarks 've worked out on paper indicate it would run at about 150-200% the speed of an Atari 800. GA <ST-REPORT> HOW MANY SHAREWARE REGISTRATIONS HAVE YOU GOTEN?GA <[Darek] DAREKM> too few! Out of the 600 downloads here on GEnie, I've received less than 20 registrations. Things really dried up in the last week, ever since I took 2.00 off GEnie, which would seem to indicate that the program might n t be propogating through the BBS as fast as I though. version 2.1 should replace 2.0 anyay, so if you see the older one on any BBS, be sure to upload the newer version. And inform the sysop (and other users) that the registration fee is now $20, since at $15 I wasn't really making profit, especially with the low turnout. I am optimistic that the registrations will increase after the release of 2.1, and after the various Atari magazines publish blurbs on it in the coming months. Afterall, not everyone has a modem. GA <ST-REPORT> DAREK, WHY ARE YOU NOT SUPPORTING THE 520ST? IT SEEMS LIKE A FIRST JUMP FOR MANY PEOPLE TO GET A 520ST BEFORE A 1MEG. THERE ARE A LOT OF 520 <[Darek] DAREKM> It's not that I'm not support it. The problem is that the emulator's inernal data structures, which hold the 64K of Atari 800 memory, the virtual disk drives, the code and lookup table required for emulation, the Apple emulator, the C64 emulator, and the GEM stuff take up 800K. The Junior version just squeezes into 520K by removing all GEM, Apple, and C64 stuff, and reducing the virtual drive support to a single SD drive. I guess I could split it up into separate emulator that each fit in 520K, but then they'd all be "just squeezing" into 520K, rather tha having room for expansion. I'll stick with the 1 meg version for now unless a _lot_ of people really complain. Anyway, no one has 520K anymore <grin>. GA <ST-REPORT> HOW ABOUT A TRANSFER PROGRAM JUST FOR JUNIOR USERS? <[Darek] DAREKM> PC Ditto bypasses the problem by just hijacking the ST. Ever tried to excit PC Ditto into the desktop? The File Xfer Program can be used for oth 520 and 1 meg users. I specifically broke it off from the main emulator (as in 2.00) for that reason, after receiving some phone calls from people who downloaded Jr. but couldn't add any 8 bit files to it GA (Hey, I can't think of everything. It was a complete oversight on my part) <ST-REPORT> THIS WILL TRANSFER FILES ALREADY PORTED TO THE ST NOT USIG DISCOM <[Darek] DAREKM> yes. all files ported to the ST either recently or for use with Xformer 1.1 or 1.2 (kill them!) can be salvaged with the utility Diskcomm is only useful for porting over entire disks, no individual files. By the way, Robert Puff, author of Diskcomm, was _very_ helpful, not only with the custom version of Diskcomm but also with helping me get the 800XL and double density to work. Good to know that there are still good 8 bit programmers sticking to their machines. GA <ST-REPORT> GOOD, I HAVE SOME THAT I USED WITH THE OLDER EMULATOR. THANKS DAREK <[Darek] DAREKM> Be warned though!!!!!!!!! If you copy a file from the 8 bit to the ST using XMODEM, it may get corrupted, since XMODEM pads the last sector wiextra characters. Atari DOS 2.0 _doesn't_ like that in th least, so be sure to ARC your files first on the 8 bit, tranfer the ARC file, then unARCto be sure you get a good file. GA <ST-REPORT> NO MORE QUESTIONS FOR NOW GA <MAJOR-HAVOC> Why wont games like PacMan work very well on Xformer? <[Darek] DAREKM> Games that are heavily graphics oriented make heavy use of the ANTIC, POKEY, and GTIA chips, and little use of the 6502. The problem is not that the macine language doesn't run, since the emulator executes all 6502 code perfectly (I _think_!!) but does not emulate the ANTIC and other chips perfectly. One reason is that I haven't figured out a way to do it in real time, as with smooth scrolling, and the other is that some Atari 800 features do not exist on the ST, such as 4 voices, 4 joysticks, paddles, etc. The main "bug" right now is the lack of display <[Darek DARKM> list interrupt emulation, which many program use. However, there are a number of tricks that can be used to jumpstart games by patching a few bytes of code here and there. (You'd have to know 6502 machine language of course). Hopefully, poeple will post patches for various programs as they try them. GA <MAJOR-HAVOC> Will 2.10 be up on GEnie to download or will you mail it out? <[Darek] DAREKM> It'll be up on GEnie in a couple of days, and then it (or a further update) will be mailed to people who register. I'll probably limit the number of updates I post on Genie to maybe one every month or even two, to reduce the confusion with all the various versions. 2.10 is currently the latest version, but will change as soon as I make a bug fix or add a new feature. GA <MAJOR-HAVOC> Thanks, and keep at it! I hope more ST user register Xformer!GA <[Darek] DAREKM> Show it at your local user group and hold a gun to peoples heads he he <[Rich] NOEGFA> I was late but what is the major difference between 2.0 and 2.1 <[Darek] DAREKM> Rich, 2.1 has 800XL emulation, double density disk support and fixes a few bugs and adds a few minor features. GA <[Rich] NOEGFA> Also Can I download 8 bit files from the 8 bit rt and use them. I don't currently have an * bit available <[Darek] DAREKM> yes, most files in the 8 bit RT should work. GA <[Rich] NOEGFA> Thanks ga <[Darek] DAREKM> and there was DEAD silence! <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> Oh... One silly question... if the (sorry about the typing time) new Xformer has XL emulation, will I be able to run Impersonator files on it? ga <[Darek] DAREKM> I've never heard of Impersonator. qu'est que c'est? GA <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> It's a cartridge backup utility. The cartridges that aren't protected, you can load from disk and run by pressing the inverse video key <[Darek] DAREKM> if they get saved to disk unprotected, use Diskcomm and they should work. GA <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> The ones that ARE protected use a "Dummy CART" that comes with the program. But it only works with XL/XE systems. ga <[Darek] DAREKM> Xformer 2.1 can be patched to support _any_ cartridge, US or non US 8 bit ROMs, and US or non US ST's, so with a good debugger like Tempelmon, you should be able to patch in the "dummy Cart", unless it contains additional circuitry beside ROMs GA <MAJOR-HAVOC> What about 850 support for the modem? <[Darek] DAREKM> the 850 is not currently support (but the printer is) bec use I simply don't have any documentation on an 850. I never had one, since I was an MMP 1000-C sufferer. One guy here on GEnie did promise to mail me some docs, but as yet I haven't received them. <MAJOR-HAVOC> I have the docs for the 850 if you want them...? <[Darek] DAREKM> Atari Corp won't tell me much either, so I'm stuck the 850 support. just regular "how to use the 850" docs won't do. I need the kind of documentation found in the 400/800 Technical Reference Notes, which mysteriously never mention the 850. Dave, if you're still here, any ideas why? <MAJOR-HAVOC> ok thanks! ga <DAVESMALL> Me? Um, Darlah, I didn't have a question. *grin* So, .ga. <DARLAH> I know Darek asked you a question. no prob..go back to sleep :-) <DAVESMALL> Okay, I'm completely lost - (lots of line noise here in lightningville) Darek, want to repeat the question? <[Darek] DAREKM> ya, any idea why the 400/800 Tech Ref Notes don't mentio anything about th 850 at all. No docs anywhere. GA <DAVESMALL> Well, the 850 had some interesting politics behind it. Perhaps it was one of the old Atari typically political decision not to incluse (include) it in the docs, to make it a seperate sheet. I don't have ny 850 docs that are worth anything, either. .ga. <[Darek] DAREKM> ok, so to answer the previous question, no 850 emulation in the near future! ga <ST-REPORT> Darek, why did you want to write the Emulator? You dohave an 8 bit, right? <[Darek] DAREKM> nope, haven't touched an 8 bit in over 3 years. GA oh, part of the question... it wasn't there and Atari didn't seem (back in 1986) to be coming out with one. I though it would be interesting, but didn't anticipate how difficult a program it would turn out to be. Should have stuck to playing video games. ;-) GA <DARLAH> Any more questions?? If so use /rai <ST-REPORT> How much memory do you have left in the 1meg for explanding <[Darek] DAREKM> not much for "explanding" but there is just enough room to hold the additional 64K of memory for the XE emulation, and stil leave 30 or 40K for desk accessories. GA <[Darek] DAREKM> (2.10 will run with Control Panel or Deskcart installed). <[Doug] D.N.WHEELER> Darek, if I remember right, the PR:connection had good docs, They should cover most 850 stuff. ga <[Darek] DAREKM> ok, if I can dig one up, I'll look into it. If any 8 bit progammers are reading this, I need a detailed description of all the SIO calls for the 850. GA <MAJOR-HAVOC> Did Atari Corp. give you any problems with Xformer? Did they like the idea? <[Darek] DAREKM> Well this time around they were very co-operative in letting me use DOS 2.0 and 2.5 and the XL/XE ROMs. I tried to get them to ease up on Atariwriter, which also works great on Xformer, but they said the rights for AW are tied up with someone else. However, when it comes to getting technical information out of them , it's like talking to a brick wall. GA <MAJOR-HAVOC> What do you mean "this time around" ? <[Darek] DAREKM> i.e. for version 2.0. enough said about that, hint hint. <MAJOR-HAVOC> ok thanks! ga <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> You were talking about the Xmodem dillema. I seem to recall that there is a way to erase the last sector of an Xmodem d/l. <[Darek] DAREKM> yes, there are 8 bit utilities which you could run on the... emulator to fix up the last sector. I find it easier to just ARC ahead of time. GA <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> I think therDo you recall what the utilities arte? <[Darek] DAREKM> a possible upcoming feature of the File Xfer Program maybe! <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> arte? IU mean are. I can't type! <[Darek] DAREKM> not off hand. have one of them here somewhere. GA <[APOSTLE] APOSTLE> I'm done. I just couldn't remember... ga <[Barry] B.LARSON3> Such as more drives then 2? GA <[Darek] DAREKM> To support more than two drives you'd need more than 1 Meg. I just kept it to two drives since I've never seen anyone with 3 drive or more (real disk drives). GA <[Barry] B.LARSON3> Will it allow you more then 2 if you have say 2.5 M? <[Darek] DAREKM> no, the SIO emulation will return an error 138 if you try to access a drive past D2:, although I don't know what would happen with the RAMdisk. Does anyone actually ever have a D3: or D4: hooked up? GA <[Barry] B.LARSON3> I have never had an 8 bit Atari. Just Apples. GA <DARLAH> Well thank you Darek for coming. We are out of questions. I appreciate the time and effort. I will be posting the transcript <[Darek] DAREKM> ok, just in time to catch a rerun of Letterman. <grin> <[Barry] B.LARSON3> I was actually thinking of Apple emulation... <[Darek] DAREKM> I am working on a similar scheme to the .SD files to do the Apple DOS emulation. GA <DARLAH> Now to open up the room unless you like to say something in closing <[Darek] DAREKM> nope, open it up <DARLAH> Room is now in the talk mode.